tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23904413.post5260024595113595828..comments2008-11-27T12:43:12.697-06:00Jeffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17598576170280941689noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23904413.post-22383611483550287922008-11-27T12:43:00.000-06:002008-11-27T12:43:00.000-06:00*sigh* So many things to say, not enough time and space to say it.<BR/><BR/>1) That verse in Revelation also says that the "cowardly, unbelieving, vile, murderers,...those who practice magic arts, idolaters and all liars" will also go to the lake of fire. Not just people you think of as sexually immoral. I don't think there's a person who can escape being one of the "all liars."<BR/><BR/>2) I'm a person who has spent a LOT of time contemplating the reality of hell. I've rejected hell and the god who is behind it. Let me be absolutely blunt here: I would rather go to hell than worship a god who makes the human monsters of past years and centuries look like Pollyanna. I could no more bow down to a god who claims to be "father," but who is far less forgiving than human fathers, or, for that matter, the father depicted in the parable of the Prodigal Son. <BR/><BR/>3) How does same-sex marriage hurt you? Is it merely because it offends your god? I'm old enough to remember when 16 states in this country didn't allow interracial marriage--it was against the law. I'd strongly suggest that you go and read the case Loving v. Virginia (1967). You would learn that Richard and Mildred Loving, for the fact that he was white and she was black, were sentenced to 25 years in exile from their home state, Virginia, for the crime of marrying in the District of Columbia. It took the Supreme Court of the United States to make their marriage legal. The judge who sentenced them to exile (as opposed to the one to five years in jail they could have gotten wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."<BR/><BR/>I see the same biblical-flavored rhetoric coming from those who are opposed to same-sex marriage. But do you have any non-religious reason to oppose such marriages? (I can actually think of one--that we need to think about the tax implications of opening up marriage to another group of people, and that comes from my father. I disagree with him, but I respect his viewpoint.)<BR/><BR/>4) JHOP-SF and TheCall are intimately wrapped up with Proposition 8. The GLBT community is not in a mood to be appeased and this is not going away. I should note that I am not a member of that community. I am, however, a single woman nearing middle age and acutely aware that my life choices do not reflect those presented to conservative Christian women in America--nor, should I say, are my life choices generally respected either. So I have a considerable amount of empathy for the GLBT community. <BR/><BR/>I'd say more but I have to drive across town for Thanksgiving dinner with my extended family.mirelehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03893206415346294554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23904413.post-50768821847583337152008-11-18T00:48:00.000-06:002008-11-18T00:48:00.000-06:00Hi Peter.<BR/><BR/>First, a clarification. I did not post this because I am outraged or shocked. As followers of Jesus, we have been specifically warned that the world will hate us, because it hated Him. (John 15:18) He specifically told us to be ready for trouble (John 16:33), to actually rejoice when it happens (Matthew 5:11-12), and to be prepared to die for Him if necessary (John 16:2-3).<BR/><BR/>We are to bless those who curse us, love those who hate us, and pray for those who persecute us. (Matthew 5:44) I believe those who were in San Francisco are doing that, and I intend, by the grace of God, to do the same if and when it happens to me.<BR/><BR/>I posted this because I believe that this is only the beginning - this kind of thing may calm down this year, but to the extent that we are being faithful to Jesus, it will happen eventually.<BR/><BR/>If you happen to read this response, you will doubtless answer that we are not being faithful to Jesus, we are just being hateful and narrow-minded. You are certainly entitled to that opinion. But consider this: from my perspective, your opinion - and the lifestyle which is being defended and promoted in places like San Francisco - is not only wrong, but has terrible consequences. <BR/><BR/>The Bible plainly states that God will judge the sexually immoral and they will end up in the Lake of Fire. (Hebrews 13:4, Revelation 21:8) You would have us shut up and keep that information to ourselves. That would be a loving thing to do <B>only</B> if we knew that what we believed was not true or did not apply to gays. In fact, we know the opposite. It is true, and it applies just as much to gays as it does to everybody else who has not repented and made Jesus the Lord of their lives.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, if what the Bible says is true, the most loving thing that I can do is warn as many people as possible to prevent them from ending up in eternal judgment. <BR/><BR/>How does this relate to the passage of Proposition 8? Proposition 8 is a statement of God's righteousness with regard to marriage. No one is likely to repent because of Proposition 8, but at least it is a warning. A person is far better off to become filled with rage in this life and be forced to wrestle with "why those people did that to me" than to be left alone for their whole lives only to experience the most horrible and tragic shock of their lives at the final judgment.<BR/><BR/>The real answer is to pray for gays, to extend the love of Christ to them, and to let them see real-life stories of how Jesus has healed and transformed gay people. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)<BR/><BR/>And that's how you end up with a group of Christians doing the foolish thing of praying and worshipping Jesus in the Castro District a week after Proposition 8 was passed.<BR/><BR/>Yes, they are angry. And yes, it is to be expected that they may become violent (though some Americans might still think that violence against an individual because of his or her religion is unacceptable regardless of circumstances). But Jesus told us to love our enemies, even if they kill us for doing it.Jeffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17598576170280941689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23904413.post-30582895118193782872008-11-17T08:13:00.000-06:002008-11-17T08:13:00.000-06:00What did you expect. You go down to the gay "mecca", and expect them to treat you nice after what you did to them?! They are very angry, and what you did only exacerbated the situation. Shame on you for pushing your agenda.Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12765368600771469837noreply@blogger.com